Ep 34: Breaking Free from Narcissistic Relationships with Alex Scot

This episode offers a compassionate guide on establishing boundaries, managing the intricate dance of relationships with narcissists, and the vital importance of a safe exit strategy. It's a candid look at the complex process of healing, emphasizing the undeniable power of self-awareness and the courage to reclaim one's narrative.

I chat with Alex Scot - a Trauma-informed and relationship healing coach about narcissistic abuse.  Our discussion peels back the layers of grandiosity and manipulation that define the spectrum of narcissism. Alex lends her expertise to demystify the cycle of love bombing, devaluation, discarding, and hoovering, providing listeners with the clarity needed to recognize and navigate these behaviors in their relationships.

Combining personal anecdotes with professional insights, Alex presents an inspiring blend of practical advice and emotional support, empowering you to break free from past patterns and foster genuine connections in your personal and romantic life.

Work with Alex:

Breakup SOS: www.alexscot.com/breakup-sos
Narc Trauma Recovery: www.alexscot.com/narc-trauma-recovery
Private Session: www.alexscot.com/private-session
Website: www.alexscot.com
Instagram: @TheAlexScot

If you or someone in a relationship experiences a threat of or actual physical violence, please have an exit strategy or call the domestic hotline for assistance.  

National Domestic Hotline Number:  800-799-7233
SMS: Text START to 88788

Transcript

Rose Wippich: 0:03

Welcome to Chat Off Th e Mat, the podcast that explores the transformative journey of healing and self-discovery where energy, spirituality, mind and body intersect. Hi, I'm your host, Rose Wippich, and I invite you to join me and explore ways to invite more holistic practices into your life. I will feature experts and practitioners who provide insights, tips and practical advice. From Reiki to Qigong, Chakra balancing to shamanism, this podcast will be your guide to understanding how these practices can lead to more harmony and greater energy. Whether you're seeking stress relief, emotional balance or a deeper connection to your authentic Chat off the Mat provide you with insights and inspiration. Let's start discovering the possibilities that lie within you. Today, on Chat of the Mat, I'd like to introduce Alex Scot, a certified trauma-informed coach, who helps her clients heal from narcissistic trauma so that they can reclaim their life and create healthy relationships. Welcome, Alex.

Alex Scot: 1:17

Hi, thank you for having me.

Rose Wippich: 1:18

Yes, I'm really excited to dive into the topic of narcissism, narcissistic behavior and healthy relationships, so I'm basically going to dive right into the topic. So this morning I Googled narcissism and it came back with 408 million Needless to say, it's a topic of discussion and you hear more and more about narcissism and narcissistic behavior. It's quite overwhelming, actually, the amount of information. So what I would like to hear from you is how would you describe what narcissistic behavior looks like or narcissistic or narcissism?

Alex Scot: 2:03

So there's different types of narcissism so we can come up with a different I like to call them different flavors, different flavors of narcissists. There's the vulnerable narcissist, which is very like the victimhood one. You know, woe is me? Everything happens to me, why can't anything ever work out for me? And then we have more of the kind of narcissism that we hear about more frequently, which is this very egotistical, grandiose sense of self. And then there's even something called communal narcissism, which are people who say "I'm a good person, I donate all this money every year and I serve at this soup kitchen and how can you tell me I'm doing something bad, like I'm a good person? Those are the communal narcissists.

Alex Scot: 2:43

So there's different flavors of narcissistic behaviors out there, but when we look at it very dwindled down, the one thing that all narcissistic people have in common is a refusal to feel shame at any and all costs, and this is why they blame others.

Alex Scot: 3:05

They get hyper defensive, they're not self- reflective, and so when I have someone who's wanting me to define, like, how can we tell if someone's really narcissistic? There's all these different surface level behaviors. You can look at which some I just named, but really look for the cycle of abuse that narcissists lean into, which is a love bomb or idolize, devalue, discard, hoover, and it becomes such a pattern that, for the survivor of that environment, you can start to predict it. So if you know exactly like I'm going to say this and they're going to get upset and we're going to get in a fight, and then it's going to be like four days of the silent treatment and then they're going to come back and they're going to tell me I'm so sorry, I'll do better next time. Like if you can literally predict exactly what's going to happen, that's kind of a sign you're dealing with someone who has some sort of abuse cycle.

Rose Wippich: 4:04

Wow, it's interesting. And I read that it's also a spectrum. So there are people that have you show some forms of that behavior, and then there's also those that have been diagnosed as it's. NPD, narcissistic personality disorder, Right? So what classifies a person as having NPD.

Alex Scot: 4:31

So if we're looking at this from like a psychiatrist sitting down and is diagnosing, they're going to look for nine different behaviors and those are like lack of empathy, grandiose sense of self and all those like we hear about them all the time. But when we look at someone like how, what's the difference between someone who's just narcissistic and has narcissistic tendencies versus someone who's diagnosable right, because that's really what I think we're trying to figure out here and that's like narcissistic tendencies is they tap into those behaviors when they really need to, when it serves them, but it's not who they are at their core, meaning it's not such a predictable abuse cycle that you can literally guarantee what their next move is going to be. When we look at someone who has a personality disorder, it truly is a disordered way of being. It's compulsive. They can't not be that, and so that's really the severity.

Alex Scot: 5:28

When someone is diagnosed with NPD, the person who's doing the diagnosing, they're really looking for that, like it gets in their way of existence, they don't have friends because they can't be empathetic towards anyone ever. They can't take responsibility for their part in things that go awry, you know, and that stems not only just from personal relationships, but it work to. And that's the other thing that I would say is, again going back to narcissistic tendencies, they tap into it when it serves them. So this person might be a little narcissistic at work, but that doesn't mean that they're that way at home with their family, right. But when we look at someone who is truly diagnosable, every single facet of their life is the same. They have the same cycle show up. They're very self destructive.

Alex Scot: 6:14

So you know, I hear very commonly within my client stories and even in my own experiences where, like these people job hop a lot, they move a lot because they don't ever really have roots tied down somewhere, because by the time they've been in a place long enough for people to figure out their way of being or for them to be isolated because they've mistreated people, they kind of need new supply and so sometimes they move to like increase their social circle and all of that. So you know, I hope that kind of helps. But I think that when we people are using the term narcissists so casually, yeah, and so it's really, and I'm not a fan of that, because for the people who truly are survivors of narcissistic abuse now they're being gaslit that you can't call people that and it's like but no, there's people who truly have experienced that they have a right to name it for what it is. So that's why I want to make the distinction between the two so much.

Rose Wippich: 7:11

No, this is great. I love being able to educate the listeners Because, like I said, there's so much information and in just clarifying it is really helpful. So, do people who have these behaviors. Do they know they're doing this? Are they recognizing this? Or is it so a part of them that they just don't know that this is how they are? Or it could be either? Yes, yes, yes yes and yes.

Alex Scot: 7:41

So from what I've heard of people who have been diagnosed with NPD because they've gone to court, ordered therapy or and they're still in therapy or they have at least been diagnosed but maybe they're not continuing therapy is that they can tell what they're doing is wrong but they don't know why they compulsively doing it. It's kind it's it's kind of like a drug addict, where it's like you know, like the drug is bad and you're like I really got to stop, I really got to put this down, but you just start chasing this high of like. But I have to do it. Where's the next hit going to come from? Like I needed, I needed, I needed it.

Alex Scot: 8:14

It's a very similar desire and compulsive type tendency to have where it's less about and I hate to say it this way, but it's so true. You know, narcissistic abuse isn't personal but for the survivor it feels so personal. But really the narcissist is just like you know, it's your means to an end. You are a vessel they can use to gain whatever they want from you and then they kind of cast you and go on to the next one and if you let them come back, they will come back to take whatever is left and then they will just continue doing that. And that's why I always tell people like it's the survivor of the narcissistic abuse is so strong, because not only have they endured the abuse, but then they find the strength to actually cut the person out, like be the gatekeeper of their own life. Because it's like once you start recognizing they're always going to come back as much as you let them, then you put that gate up and you're like no more and then you literally just chest what's the word chess match?

Alex Scot: 9:13

like checkmate yeah, you've done that with the narc the second you've cut them off like that. It's like boom, no more messing around with me.

Rose Wippich: 9:24

Yeah, yeah. So I think what the term is when we recognize that there's something wrong but we still have a hard time justifying not doing it. Is that cognitive dissonance? That's the term used. So you've experienced this behavior. We're going to circle back about more, about a person leaving a relationship and all that but you experienced this behavior from a parent early on and I was wondering if you can describe this experience and how you were able to handle it or deal with it and not make it a part of your life anymore.

Alex Scot: 10:04

So I didn't know about the narcissistic parent until I had the narcissistic ex and he had confided in me that he was diagnosed, and so I was like wanting to learn more about it and I was like, wait a second, this sounds oddly familiar and that's where, kind of, all the dots connected and so dealing with it. Growing up I didn't know, I didn't know what I didn't know. In my mind, every parent treated their child that way. That was normal. And this is what abuse survivors do, no matter what age they're exposed to the abuse, they normalize it in order to survive it. And so you know. That's why people who do experience any kind of abuse no matter you know we hear that word and think physical, but like verbal, emotional, like all those little T traumas that are left over from childhood you again, no matter the severity of it, you normalize it in your brain. It becomes a very normal way of being and treated, and that means in adulthood you fall prey to those same cycles. And this is why healing is so important, because until you change what is normal for you to receive, you'll keep finding the same cycles. And so for a lot of abuse survivors, having someone give you something with no strings attached, feels really weird. Having someone take care of you when you're sick, no strings attached. Terrifying because you're not used to receiving, without any kind of you know, something being held over your head or as a bargaining chip, you know.

Alex Scot: 11:40

So, anyway, when I, in this moment, when I started to realize that my parent was and I actually ended up finding out from my older sister she was diagnosed when I was in high school, but when I realized all of this I was already in my mid to late 20s Wow. And so at that point and I think any survivor you kind of reach this fork in the road moment where you're like well, what do I do now? Do I try and like just suck it up and continue to deal with it, or do I like try and stand up for myself? Because, again, abuse, survivor, standing up for yourself, you know what that means. You're going to get screamed at, cussed at, maybe physically assaulted, like there's a lot like the narcissistic rage is what it's called when you start to stand up for yourself or not fall for their games anymore. So my first course of correction was to just without, because, like I think a lot of people are like justice, I need to tell you that you're a narcissist and like, please, if you're listening to this, don't do that, it will backfire so bad.

Alex Scot: 12:44

So I knew I was smart, like I was smart enough to know that, and then what ended up happening was I very I became a calculated person, like I hate to say it, but it's one of those things where people pleasing unconsciously is very differently than people pleasing consciously, and for someone dealing with an abuser, sometimes it's necessary I have to let you get your way here, because otherwise I'm choosing to subject myself to more abuse. So that's one part of it. The other thing is is I became extremely calculated about what I shared and didn't share with them, especially around holidays and birthdays, because I was already at a point because my parents divorced. I was already kind of like going back and forth between homes in adulthood, like through college and other stuff, and so there were times where I was like I'm working, I can't come to Christmas and I would make that decision knowing that I'd rather work an extra shift and pick it up for someone, because that's going to be more joyful and peace filled than putting myself in this household.

Alex Scot: 13:50

So there were a lot of like decisions I made without letting this person know, but, like I was making on my behalf and very much be controlling my own life based off of do I want to put up with this today or not? On this day, on my birthday, do I want to spend my birthday with them because I don't have to if I don't want to? And so you know it was hard Eventually, because the thing that was very specific for my story, but I know I'm not the only one, there's other people out here. Their narcissistic parent leans into religious abuse on top of it, and so it got to a point over coven where the verbal, emotional abuse, mental abuse and also demand to conform of their way of being in their ideology was so intense. I finally cut them out.

Alex Scot: 14:37

So, I haven't had contact with this person for almost four years now. So that's how I dealt with it, you know, and I think that when I have prepared sorry, when I have people who work with me who had narcissistic parents they asked me all the time like, can I manage it or do I have to cut them out? And I'm, like I always in the team of like, let's see if we can manage it at first and guess what? If it becomes too not manageable, you can cut them out at that point. You know, but I don't think there's a reason to like jump to cutting them out until you've kind of vetted all of your options.

Rose Wippich: 15:11

I think what you were saying to, with the people pleasing and the decisions that you were making were almost maybe, maybe I'm wrong but fear based. Oh my gosh 100% yeah yeah, I can relate, so so. So let's circle back to a person who's in a relationship with a narcissistic partner or friend or whatever. What. What stops them? Well, first of all, there's. There needs to be an awareness that something's happening, right.

Rose Wippich: 15:41

Yeah and some people don't become aware, and then they're in this forever and they become like a shallow person or a shallow or a shell of their of their selves. I should say that's what I was trying to say, but what about the person who's aware that something's happening? What? What are the steps that they can take to crack open that door to yeah, to me out, or make changes?

Alex Scot: 16:07

So the one thing I want to say before I jump into these additional steps is like I feel the need to be responsible as a practitioner and say if there has been physical violence, if there's been a threat of physical violence, if you've seen this person potentially have those tendencies, please get a safe exit strategy called the domestic hotline and use your local resources, because the most dangerous times in these relationships are when someone gets pregnant or someone leaves. So I just I feel that I need to do my due diligence in saying that, but it's very much a truth that anyone who's left one of these relationships knows. You have to plot your escape. It's not a normal breakup where it was like thanks for our time together, wish you all the best. Like that's never going to happen, and a lot of abuse survivors want that to happen. They hold on to hope and almost project their way of being on the narcissist Cause it's like well, I would give this person grace, maybe they'll give me grace, right, and it's just like anyone listening to this, like their behaviors are fact, like trust your gut. It's not going to work like that. So the first step is to like build up your support system. These people love to isolate you. So one if you're in the middle of it right now, don't let them. But to reestablish those connections, reach out to friends, reach out to family members, even if you haven't talked to them in a long time, if you're vulnerable with them and share with them like look, I'm plotting my escape to leave this. I know like things might have gotten sour between us because of this relationship, but like I need support right now. Can you help me, can you be a resource for me? Or even can I come, stay at your place, like whatever. You know what I mean, but have that conversation. I think that is the very first step.

Alex Scot: 17:53

The other thing is to gather your belongings without this person knowing. Ideally, you know, in a perfect world, we're not living with them yet, right? Because living like, once you are living with them, it becomes that much harder to leave. But regardless, you want to definitely gather the belongings that you don't want to part ways with, because any belonging you do leave with them, they are going to try and use that as a bargaining chip for you to come over and see them again. They're not going to let you just drive by and pick your stuff up If you leave it on a crate. If they leave it on a crate on the patio, like it's not going to work like that. So get ahead of that problem by packing your most precious belongings and whatever you don't have with you. When this conversation does eventually go down, be prepared to part ways with that. And that includes pets, like literally, I have had people ask me about pets in this situation, which is just like a minefield to navigate.

Alex Scot: 18:43

Nonetheless, obviously, children is a whole nother ball of wax. If you do have children, if you do own a house with them, please get a lawyer. I know it doesn't sound fun and it's not going to be, but be protected. I'd rather anyone be overly safe and prepared than sorry. Yeah, and then from there, the other thing that I would start doing right off the bat is moving all communication to text and email. No more phone calls because you need a paper trail in case you have to get a no contact order, restraining order.

Alex Scot: 19:11

So those are my first big steps, but it really is a process, and it's it's a process that, like I said before, you need to be calculated. You need to look at what are their potential responses and behaviors when I write them this email or text saying hey, thanks, but no thanks, I'm going to move on. I've got my stuff, you know. Like wish you all the best, like whatever text you some with them to officially say you know I'm leaving you. What are the potential reactions to that? Be prepared for all of them when they realize that I've taken my belongings, how are they going to react? To be prepared for all of them If you have to get divorced, what are the potential reactions to them when you serve paperwork Like there's so much to think about and that's what I encourage anyone to do before they even start taking action is like think before you do anything. Get ahead of any response, because then you're prepared and you're, you know, well equipped to handle the chaos that will ensue. But I promise it gets better.

Rose Wippich: 20:12

I can say that, yeah, you know, I'm listening to you and I keep hearing survivor mode or warrior mode, and it's not an easy thing when you're so conditioned to be with someone who verbally abuses you or maybe even physically abuses you and you try to leave. You're already in a weakened state. So almost take that time to plan and try to stick to that plan, and I think having resources, like you said, is really important.

Alex Scot: 20:42

Yeah, it's necessary.

Rose Wippich: 20:43

Yeah, I was in a very similar situation and, yeah, I basically kind of got a bag and left when I was living with someone who when I look back now realize it was a he was narcissistic or and a narcissist and it was, but luckily I got out and yeah, so first step and it wasn't easy but I did it. Yeah, yeah, I escaped. You know, I was listening to your most recent podcast where you described the effects that this behavior, this constant behavior, has on our nervous system and that the victims of this behavior are in a constant stage of fight or flight which affects the nervous system. How does this cycle of abuse negatively impact our nervous system and the effect it has on our health?

Alex Scot: 21:39

Well it. If so, you're nervous to someone, it's in a survival state, and that's fight flight, which is hyper aroused, but also fawn is a survival state, and that's people pleasing and then freeze and dissociate, and then you can even have blended states. So like a blended state that all of us have been and is like you're exhausted, you're on the couch, physically stuck in a freeze mode, but your brain is in fight flight because it's like get off your ass, get to work. You know those moments that's literally a blended state, and so the way it impacts you is a lot of people describe themselves as like I feel like I'm always walking on eggshells, I'm always anticipating their mood swings, I'm always maybe the thinking ahead of what I just express, where, like, if you are trying to leave a situation and you need to think ahead, that in and of itself is a survival state because it's a form of anxiety, you're anticipating the future, and then it's a little mix of people pleasing and so that you can adjust your behavior to make sure you master that environment right. So there's like that's a hyper aroused, people pleasing, which is fawning state, and so if you notice that about yourself Also, another common one is why, tired but wired, so it's like you want to go to bed but your brain is like it doesn't feel safe going to sleep.

Alex Scot: 22:55

You know those are. That means you're chronically conditioned in that environment. So that's how it impacts the nervous system. Is, if you're in this environment regularly, like throughout childhood or an extended relationship, and you're around this person a lot, you are training your nervous system to always bid in that, be in that survival mode, right, it's like it's hyper aroused because it's waiting for the other shoe to drop. It's people pleasing so it can like shrink and like find safety and like, oh, don't yell at me please. Oh, my gosh, you didn't see me just do that, right. And so when we are exposed to this, it's like going to the gym, right, someone who trains for a marathon. They're in the gym every day so that their body develops resiliency to the endurance. You know those muscles can last that long be firing that long. It's literally the same thing in an abusive household. You're conditioning your nervous system to always be going, going, going, like ready and waiting for the next attack, right. So this is why a lot of people exit these relationships and they're like you know, I struggled with insomnia for so long and they might still struggle with insomnia even when they leave Because, even though logically they're like, I'm not in that relationship. So why am I struggling with ruminating thoughts and anxiety and depression and insomnia? Still, because your nervous system needs to be taught it's safe through nervous system work. Our nervous systems don't just automatically shift. So that's how it impacts our nervous system, the it impacts our overall health.

Alex Scot: 24:21

You know there's a lot of people. Sometimes I get hate. Not often anymore, but when I first started I used to get so much hate around using the term toxic. Like toxic people, toxic partner, toxic relationship, toxic behavior and they'd be. Like you know, people aren't toxic, they're broken and I'm like. I understand that from a. I do, I really do because, like you know, like narcissistic personality, disordered behaviors come from a deep place of brokenness, of trauma still doesn't justify the abuse and for the person who is receiving the abuse, it is toxic for them because your body gets put into a state of adrenal fatigue, because your adrenals are pumping out stress hormones all the time. You have digestive issues because of it, because, again, your body is constantly in a state of fight flight free. So people with IBS, whether the constipation kind or the runs kind, staple fibromyalgia like there's. There's so many different autoimmune disorders, the nervous system attacking itself, like it all stems.

Rose Wippich: 25:22

I don't want to say mystery, but those mystery illnesses that come out exactly, exactly.

Alex Scot: 25:27

if you're like where did I get this from? All of a sudden, most likely it's trauma. So yeah, it's. It really is toxic for the person surviving the environment, because your body is doing its best it's like on a hamster wheel just trying to keep you alive, and so, of course, it starts to shut down from the inside out.

Rose Wippich: 25:45

Yeah, I, and I could see you know I was. I was just thinking to do do victims often and I don't know the numbers and I don't even know if they have numbers, but I'm always thinking it can lead to some substance abuse addiction, right, because they're numbing themselves. So they're sitting in their house with the abusive person and they're they're, they're drinking and they're doing whatever just to escape.

Alex Scot: 26:10

Yeah, 100% and it can in any kind of addiction, not just drinking, smoking, weed, retail therapy like all of it, and so it's like it work a haul like workaholics even something, or gym you know I hate to use this term, but gym rats like people who spend a lot of time because, guess what, they'd rather be at the gym than in the house. So it's like you know, there's so many ways of coping that and I think people have like there's unhealthy coping and there's healthy coping, but really, like, all coping is avoiding healing and finding true stability, and I don't want anyone to feel shame about it like it's a natural and understandable response to again find some kind of relief and respite from what you're experiencing. So you know, we've all coped in our own ways and so if you're developing a habit that you're like you know I'm not really stoked about this, but like this is what I see let's get curious about it. What, what feelings are we avoiding when we're reaching for that substance or doing that thing?

Rose Wippich: 27:13

It's easy to know to, to try to change that behavior that you're, this, this behavior that you've been. You know that that is triggered by by these things, by this, this emotion or these, the situation that you're in. No, I get it, you know it's. It's. It's not easy. Let's talk about, let's talk about the narcissist for a moment. How did they become this way, where you know, I was doing some research and some says what's genetic, or its condition? It's like, where does it come from? Do we even know where it comes from?

Alex Scot: 27:52

I don't think anyone can without a doubt, say 100% it comes from this or that. I think it's a little bit of calm and a little bit of calm be like. I think that what we know for sure to be true is that all narcissistic people, no matter the spectrum like, those behaviors are tapped into from trauma, from unresolved trauma. We can say that for sure. But it's not necessarily genetic with a guarantee, because then I would be a narcissist if my mom is one, right. So I think, really, when we look at a lot of genetic diseases, I think we're very much monkey see, monkey do, and so when we're, if we're going to look at like and PD being potentially genetic, it's more like my parent treated me this way, so I'm going to treat other people this way because I turned out okay, right. It's more like a belief system of like if they got away with it, I can get away with it instead of being like ooh, I didn't like how they treated me and so I'm going to be a better version than that right like. And so I think that it's less about it's in your DNA, so that defines who you're going to be, and it's more about you choosing how you're going to express and like healing.

Alex Scot: 29:04

For someone who's raised in a narcissistically abusive home, healing feels really scary because in a way you are literally rewiring your entire childhood. Like you have to look back, like I remember the first and so many I relate to so many of my clients who first come to me and say the same things I did. That was like, but they were my mom, but they were my dad, but they did so much good for me, they kept me alive, they kept a roof over my house, I got a computer. When I was a teenager, like I was kind of spoiled, I got to go to Disney World. It's like, yeah, my childhood wasn't that bad Physically, like I can look at that on paper and say it wasn't that bad and at the same time it was filled with emotional, mental, physical abuse.

Rose Wippich: 29:47

Yeah.

Alex Scot: 29:49

So, you know, it's one of these things where, when someone has to confront their past, they're stripping away a sense of their own identity. They're stripping away what they thought was an okay childhood. You know, and like, even just like, learning to live with that duality of like I can acknowledge like I had it good in these ways, while also saying and this was not okay either, but that's a hard place to come to. That's where more cognitive dissonance comes in. You know how do I marry these two realities? That doesn't make sense to me. So, yeah, I think that we will. We do have high correlation with people who are raised with an NPD parent, developing BPD borderline personality disorder which is an intense desire for connection, but because it feels so unfamiliar, they sabotage it.

Rose Wippich: 30:39

Wow.

Alex Scot: 30:40

Yeah, and that makes total sense when you look at a child who survived an NPD home and the desire for your connection is still there, but they it doesn't feel familiar, it doesn't feel safe, so they push it away when it gets too too intense. Yeah, it's really sad and it like it makes me so passionate about this work because it's like, even with the people who have NPD like they, the beautiful thing about our brains is that they're plastic. Right, neuroplasticity is a thing which means we are moldable, just like the Tupperware in our cabinets. Right, our brains are moldable. Our nervous systems respond to new stimulus. We can control them. We can choose new ways of being, new ways of feeling.

Alex Scot: 31:23

The biggest hurdle anyone needs to get over is deciding one that they actually have that power. I think a lot of people want to give away that power. It's too hard, I don't have the money, I don't have the time. They're just giving it away, giving it away, giving it away. So one, it's owning that power. And then the other thing is doing being consistent with the activities you need to do. If you can do those two things, you're fine and you're about to change your life.

Rose Wippich: 31:48

Yeah, oh yeah, absolutely. If you know someone who's a victim in a relationship, you really can tell them hey, this is happening to you. They need to really see it for themselves and make that change.

Alex Scot: 32:01

I had so many friends try. I had so many friends try when I was with my ex. They were like. I vividly remember having conversations with people where I'm like I know this relationship isn't going to go anywhere. But at the time I was like early to mid-20s and so I was like but can I just have fun, honestly, if I'm being?

Alex Scot: 32:20

He was really handsome and so I just couldn't get over the fact because it was like I feel chosen by this really handsome guy because I had put him on a pedestal right, not realizing Alex, you're a cute girl, you can get another good looking guy, why settle for this treatment? But in my mind I was so addicted to the thought of this really handsome guy choosing me and I remember my friend being like if I was you, I wouldn't one allow someone to treat me this way or to waste my precious time Like I'm looking for a husband, it's not what you want. And I'm like, yeah, but like do you see how cutie is? And so, yeah, you can't like. I got to a point to where I would stop telling my friends about it. We broke up. We got back together. We broke up. We got like almost every other day that was happening, and so I just started living a double life and it wasn't I needed to see it.

Rose Wippich: 33:12

And it took me another year. Oh wow, so so. So how? So I'm thinking as you're talking. Once again, like you know, there's a self confidence issue there. Maybe I don't know.

Alex Scot: 33:26

I don't know you.

Rose Wippich: 33:26

Right. So I mean you're not confident that you'll get another cute guy, or maybe a cute guy that's even nicer.

Alex Scot: 33:32

Oh, my God, right yeah, so so so all this takes place.

Rose Wippich: 33:36

So, you know, a majority of my audience are women and I've always felt and I'm, and I'm, you know, in, a little older and I've been through more relationships than a lot of people A lot of times that I was a victim of a abusive relationships which were there were a few or people who were addicted to substances, it was because I lacked the confidence. I didn't have, I wasn't shown, because I wasn't in that perfect, you know, my childhood had issues that had some some, some verbal abuse, so I wasn't aware of what it was like to have a really good partner or have the confidence to even know what to look for one. So yeah, so can you talk a little bit about that? Like, do your clients that come to you, do you see a pattern of lack of self confidence within them?

Alex Scot: 34:30

Yeah, it's really weird because, like, this is the weirdest thing and I'm sure you can relate to this and I'm sure the people listening can relate to this too the women. This is the weird thing about narcissists is narcissists date up. Narcissists date up. So they look at the people they're dating and there's something about them that they actually admire that they put on a pedestal and they're there in a way to balance the scale by pushing you down, and that's like one reason they fuel their abuse right.

Alex Scot: 34:57

So, every single person who I have met have been these ridiculously successful women and I look back at myself at this point in my life. I had my dream job. I used to dance for Disneyland. I was dancing for Disneyland like best shape of my life, my most favorite job I've ever had, and like I was really successful. I was doing well. I was the life of the party. I was really outgoing, like you know what I mean, like good friends and doing all those things.

Alex Scot: 35:26

But internally, my internal world was so not confident. Same thing with my clients lawyers, doctors, working for Facebook, like really awesome jobs and like go getters, like yeah, I led this meeting today on this. That and the other thing, like just killing it. Internally is where the lack of confidence is. Because there are so many people that would look at me and I'm sure this is true for the people I've helped and anyone listening that would be like you are. Why are you single? Why are you dealing with this loser? Like you are such a catch, but you don't feel like you're a catch right.

Alex Scot: 36:03

And so one of the ways that I illustrate this and people kind of go aha, I get it now Is if we, because there's these, the thing that's true about these go getter women and I'm speaking from personal experiences. We push ourselves because our the way we talk to ourselves, is so harsh right, and so it's like we excel because internally, we're trying to prove our inner critic wrong. That inner critic is so loud, and so it's like inner critic is going off like why'd you say that in that meeting? You put your foot in your mouth like you know, da, da, da, da. And like so next meeting is going to be even better because that inner critic is just beating us up. Why are you dressing like this? Why is your hair like that? Today, your eye makeup could be better.

Rose Wippich: 36:44

Oh my God, your butt needs to be raised four inches.

Alex Scot: 36:47

Yeah, like all these things like why don't you have a thigh gap? Like just these crazy things, right? And so it's like when we talk to ourselves that way, the second someone texts us, hey, no-transcript. Or the second someone is like on a date, hey, you're such a catch, why are you single? And I'm gonna treat you exactly the way that you've always wanted to be treated. The love bomb is what I'm alluding to here.

Alex Scot: 37:13

Right From a narcissist, we gobble it up. We're like, yes, someone is telling me the things my inner world is so desperate to hear. Take me, sweep me off my feet, let's run away to Morocco and get married, right, like it becomes such a natural response because internally we're craving it. But what we don't realize is we can give it to ourselves. So then, if we run that tape back and it's like you know what that meeting was really good, here's an area I saw I could improve and I'm gonna do that better next time, because I know I can. Way different than why did you say that you put your foot in your mouth, right? It's like when we can develop a relationship with self, that is constructive criticism. That is hey, you know what? You look kind of cute today, even without your makeup on, you get it girl right and we can have that kind of camaraderie. Then I'm not gonna fall for the love bomb because the standard has been risen so much higher.

Alex Scot: 38:07

You know, yeah, that's great, it's like yeah, you're gonna call me hey beautiful and you think that's enough of a text and take me out to dinner. Like yeah, of course I'm beautiful.

Rose Wippich: 38:18

I really, really hope that the younger generation because I know a lot of people in my age group and older generation they feel lack of self-confidence because they didn't know any better, they weren't taught better, they were on resources back then and they didn't have people like you who are here to educate people and I see all the content you're putting out on your social media and the courses that you have. We're gonna talk about that because I really want people to know what you're doing. You're here to make these gigantic waves of change so that and I'm getting the goosebumps as I'm talking about this because I know you're gonna do this the younger generation, the younger people, the younger women who need to, and there's a lot of young like teenage girls. They're not confident and they're gonna wind up in those type of situations, being love-bombed because their inner critic is so loud and I'm not saying a lot and I'm hoping that it is changing. But people like you need to help and make these changes so that they're not these victims anymore and victims of their own voice.

Alex Scot: 39:26

Right, yeah, no, not just other voice.

Rose Wippich: 39:29

So let's talk a little bit about dating consciously, which is I know you talk about that as well right, and attracting an aligned partner. So, personally, I haven't dated in a long time because this month I'll be married 21 years.

Rose Wippich: 39:44

So, after kissing a lot of frogs, being the victim of a lot of bullshit, I found the prince. So he's my prince, so it's awesome. But it's not like that. A lot of people are divorced after their kids go to college, leave the house empty nesters they get divorced because they're ready to leave, make a change whatever, or younger people. I wouldn't know where to begin. So what advice or what checklist? Do you have a rule book or something that you can share with people out there who are ready to embark on, let's say, dating? Is there something they need to do in order to get out there?

Alex Scot: 40:27

Well, I mean, I think it depends on the person you are. There's someone who comes to mind who's a 74-year-old gent, got divorced a couple summers ago, got on Jaydate, and I can't remember the other one. He was on eHarmony. So some people are open to online dating. And if you are open to online dating, then what I always teach my clients is cast a narrow net, not a wide net, and the reason for that is online dating. Your proximity, if you will, to people grows exponentially, like it's huge right. Like people that you aren't going to meet necessarily walking down the street or in your local coffee shop. You now could potentially meet online, but that doesn't necessarily mean that all those people are a good fit for you. And so when I teach my clients about online dating or apps, I say be very. It's like marketing. There is a specific demographic you are targeting. You're not targeting everyone, right? So it's like be very specific.

Alex Scot: 41:21

Say the inside jokes, put your sense of humor forward, all of the taboo topics that you don't like to share with the general public. Share it on your dating profile. And I'll give you an example. That's a very taboo topic, especially for a healing practitioner, but I'll just keep it real.

Alex Scot: 41:39

I am not a big drinker, I much prefer marijuana, and so it's like I needed to put that on my dating profile because it's like if someone thinks that I'm gonna be going out constantly having drinks with them, that's not really the lifestyle that I partake in. You know what I mean, and so I want someone to know that before they match with me, because I don't you know if I'm gonna ride off in the sunset with you. You need to know that. One, I partake in that and two, you need to be okay with it and not have this expectation that I'm gonna be drinking with you all the time, right? So that's like one example of the taboo topic that I, when I was dating, had on my profile, because I know that's gonna upset a lot of people, even maybe someone listening to this show right now and that's okay, by the way, like I don't need everyone to accept that.

Rose Wippich: 42:24

But my point has been proven.

Alex Scot: 42:25

That's my point, though, is like I'm not for anyone romantically, or practitioner or elite, if I'm making that word up, but you get what I'm saying and that's what we want from dating, because all those little quirky things about you that other people might have a strong response about, right, like you like to spend your weekends wood burning, you know, or crafting and molding something with your hands, like that person is gonna have a wonderful relationship with someone else who likes to work with their hands. Then, like someone who's always at a music festival, maybe you know what I mean. So it's like you want those specific things about you to be upfront on these larger platforms, because you want very specific people to match with you, not everyone. It's about quality, not quantity. And then the other hot tip I have is go to more social events in your area with interests that you already enjoy. So, like the performing arts pickleball, tennis, I'm trying to think of I'm used to living in Laguna Beach, so I'm trying to think of all the other activities.

Alex Scot: 43:25

Oh, nice, hiking, like yeah, hiking, right All those different things going to the beach, right, like go on activities like that and just be open to just meeting new people. What's great about this is like the expectation of romance is gone because you're just meeting them in a neutral setting. So it's really easy to take things slow. But then take it a step further and do like adjacent activities. So what I mean by that is like if you're a performing arts person, maybe you volunteer to be an usher at a show one night, right. If you're someone who does love to do wood burning stuff, maybe you're working with a craft store to like put on some kind of class one day, and the reason for that is because you're still in your interest, so you're going to enjoy doing that with your time regardless. But two, then you're going to start to meet people who consistently go to these things, who might also have other opportunities, and so again, you're just increasing your social network.

Rose Wippich: 44:15

Yeah, that's great. Yeah, I love that.

Alex Scot: 44:20

Don't just sit at a bar waiting for someone to buy you a drink because they're going to expect that, but also like going back to that, because that's such the normal, like so many people just think and this I'm preaching the choir because this used to be me it's like if I'm going to meet someone, I have to be like going out to these bars and like getting drinks all the time, but like, I don't do that, I don't do that in my life.

Alex Scot: 44:43

So it's like, if you aren't someone who already goes to a bar every night for happy hour, don't force yourself to do that, because, guess what, you're going to meet someone who goes to a bar every night for happy hour and then you're going to end up fighting about that down the line.

Rose Wippich: 44:55

Exactly, just be your authentic like you said Exactly that's the magnet.

Rose Wippich: 45:01

Yeah, be truthful, as what you like, what you don't like, and put it out there. And I think for anybody, you have to realize that life is too short. You can't. Just you have to be discerning, right and know that and trust. I always say you got to trust that the universe will provide for you and bring you who you need, as long as you're open, and I also feel it's important to do the work. Also, if you come out of a relationship that has been quote unquote toxic, do you encourage people to give themselves some space first? I mean, yeah, right.

Alex Scot: 45:38

And the reason for that is to allow your nervous system to decompress, like earlier in the show when we were talking about all the different states and the hypervigilance that can come up and, like the inability to relax, like you don't want a relationship, hop in that state because you're not going to pick up on red flags. It's not going to be soothing to you the way that you think it will be, but when you give yourself space between relationships, especially something that's as gnarly as what we're talking about here today, you allow your nervous system to heal and repair and to find just stasis, and so that means that you'll pick up on red flags more because you're more grounded, you're more in your body, you're more in touch with your intuition, and that's like our own innate superpower and it's like I try and do everything from that place, cause if I'm not in that place, it's like I'm not picking up on the cues I'm not picking up on. You know what feels safe and unsafe, like do I go left or right down this road? You know, just like little things like that, and there it's such a again, it's such a superpower. So definitely take your time.

Alex Scot: 46:38

The next question I get is well, how much time and there was a psychologist I worked with a while ago who would say at least half of the relationship. So it's like if you were together three years, a year and a half, be single for a year and a half I have less than a textbook answer for it and I really what I would say that's more important is I don't care if you're single for three months, six months or a year. The last time I was single I was single for a year and it was great. I'm so glad I gave myself all that time.

Alex Scot: 47:07

But what matters more is the nervous system work you're doing every day during that period of time, because time does not heal all wounds it is the biggest myth that is out there. It's the right healing exercises and activities plus time. That equals healing, and healing as efficiently as possible. So that's why, like if my clients they hear me say it all the time, to the point where they start rolling their eyes at me, but I'm like it's the truth Regulate, regulate, regulate your nervous system. Learn how to do that and you will grab the life, like your life by the horns and like reclaim it so fast.

Rose Wippich: 47:41

Yeah, yeah, that's awesome. You know you mentioned in one of your podcasts that I was listening, that you know it's great to use while you're healing, to use cognitive skills such as journaling and meditation and things, but you're talking also about nutrition and somatic awareness and those things. So those are the things that you offer. So people think you know, go home and see a mantra and do journaling, which are great, right, but there's so many other ways that a person can. Can you talk a little?

Alex Scot: 48:13

bit about some of these tactics? So we're talking about the difference between top down processing and bottom up processing. So when we talk about things like mantras, reframing thoughts, journaling, meditating, those are top down processes and the reason I talk about this so much is because you only have 20% of your nerves that communicate brain to body. Bottom up processing you're using 80% of your nerves because you have 80% that communicates body to brain to process the brain, to process these emotions ensue. You tell me which is the bigger number, right? So when we look at different modalities that involve bottom up processing, those are things like what I'm talking with you about today nervous system regulation using breath, work, tapping, grounding in nature, using your five senses, cold exposure. Those are all singing, humming, gargling, even havening, caressing. These are all physical examples of how you can regulate the nervous system using a bottom up processing, bottom up approach. And then when you do that, the rest of the 20% follow suit real quick because you can actually access different parts of your mind to meditate and visualize and do all that good stuff. So, yeah, we need and then the somatic, experiencing side of it and parts work and EMDR. Those are the three modalities I use in my programs and I kind of wrap them all up together because there are three modalities that work really well together. The somatic experiencing side of it is like what am I feeling in my body?

Alex Scot: 49:39

I had a mentor who would say to me once how can you tell you're feeling anxious? And I remember the first time he asked me that I looked at him like he had 10 heads. I was like what do you mean? How can I tell? And he was like think about what you're feeling. How can you tell you're feeling anxious? And that is the somatic experiencing question. What am I feeling in my stomach when my hands are clamped? And I'm just now realizing I'm picking my fingernails? Oh, my legs. I'm like gripping my toes on one foot. I'm squeezing my hand between my thighs. My stomach feels like I'm gonna hurl. Okay, that's the somatic experience of your anxiety. So now I can tell when I'm anxious.

Alex Scot: 50:15

I was talking to someone the other day and I was picking and I noticed I was under my desk. I noticed I was picking and I took a moment and I breathed and I was like okay, can I feel my butt in my chair? And I relaxed my hand. I stopped picking my hand because I wasn't. There was a part of me that was a little like tapping out, dissociating a little, because I started feeling anxious for whatever reason.

Alex Scot: 50:36

And so when we can become so aware of what our body is doing in response to whatever we're hearing, or emotionally responding to watching on TV, we can control it, but we live our lives so tuned out from what our bodies are telling us that it's like I have a girlfriend God bless her soul. I have a girlfriend who bites her nails past the quick oh, and it gives me exactly. It gives me that oh, my gosh, every time. And I'm just like babe, what is going on in your mind? And like with some, not from like a, what is going on? Like, just very much like, what are you escaping with that?

Alex Scot: 51:17

And so any of those little behaviors that you noticed, that you might not be a fan of, like, start to track them, start to recognize like, when am I doing this? Okay, I'm having this conversation with this person. What about this conversation is overwhelming? Oh, I notice, every time I'm in a room with this coworker, my body starts to do that. That's interesting, right. Just start asking yourself why, every time I have to turn on this road, for some reason, my body has this response. Curious, is it? Because there's less lighting on this, like road at night or like what is it? Just start paying attention and so, and that right there will give you a huge leap. But those are the bottom up processing tools I like to use.

Rose Wippich: 51:55

So let's talk about some of your offerings, Cause I know we're getting close to wrapping up and you are offering a few. I'd rather you talk about it. So tell the audience what some of your upcoming offering or offerings are.

Alex Scot: 52:11

Yes. So the to kind of go into what we were just talking about with the Sematic, experiencing, emdr and parts work, that program is NARC, trauma Recovery. That's starting April 17th. I'm currently enrolling for it right now and that is where we go deep into the healing work. So if you had a narcissistic parent or partner or boss or friend, it's for any kind of narcissist in your life to recover from that experience and reclaim your life and establish inner peace and heal the triggers. And then I also.

Alex Scot: 52:42

The last part of that program is skill building. So communication skills, boundary setting skills, fighting fair skills, all that good stuff. So if you are interested in that, you can definitely hit the link. I'll go ahead and send that to you or message me on Instagram and I'd be happy to help you, or even just head to my website, alexscottcom, and so that's definitely one that I would recommend. If you wanna go deep in the healing work, whether you're just starting, whether you've been on your healing journey and you wanna go deeper, it's a great fit for you. If you're someone who's like I'm about to leave this narcissistic person, or maybe you're fresh out and you just need help committing to no contact, I have an online course called Breakup SOS, and so those are the two that I'm happy to share that are most current and currently in Roly.

Rose Wippich: 53:28

Great, thank you, and I'll put all the show notes. Yeah, so.

Alex Scot: 53:30

Totally.

Rose Wippich: 53:31

Yeah, definitely check Alex out. She's just amazing, and I remember when we first had our little quick chat I was like, oh wow, you know like I could just listen to you all day. You're just amazing. And I know like I said, I really, truly know you are gonna help a lot of people and just keep on doing what you're doing, because you're just amazing.

Alex Scot: 53:50

Thank you, I appreciate that so much.

Rose Wippich: 53:55

Thank you for joining me here on Chat Off The Mat. I hope these stories have inspired you. If you've enjoyed this episode, please share it with those who might benefit. Your support helps me spread awareness about the power of transformative healing. Stay connected with me on social media. Reach out with your own healing stories or topics you'd like me to explore in future episodes. Your voice is an essential part of this community. I hope that your healing journey is filled with self-discovery, curiosity, resilience and the enwavering belief in the power that resides within you. Until next time, I'm Rose Wippich, wishing you a journey filled with love, laughter and endless possibilities.